Rhetoric Game Link

cmcc247.weebly.com

Gates

I tried to read Gate's "Whose Cannon is it Anyway?" and found it to be kind of confusing as if I was not sure what he was trying to get at. I found it interesting what he had to say about, "men are men and men were white,when scholar-critics were white men and when women and people of color were voiceless." I was confused when he started talking about western tradition. I do not know if I percepted it wrong or if I just did not understand it.

Canon

Issues between races, genders, and equality have always been a problem. Although, it may diminishes a little bit, it still exists and we cannot deny that. Many people have fought for race and gender equality, however the problem remain and something has to get done in our society today. In a society where there are different types or people, different background and ethnicity, racism will still exist spoken or unspoken. Vivid or not.
Stereotypes are everywhere and in everything. Let's say for example a girl wants to play football, do you imagine the reaction of her parents and her friends? White Canon and Black Canon is the way Gates phrases it, but it could have been called differently. The fact that society is so used to stereotype not because this is the way we want it, but because that's the way it has always been and will always be. We can't do anything about that. It's in our mind.
I think, Gates clearly makes its point about society's view of racism and stereotypes. However, he has used some Latin-roots words that have made his text a little bit difficult.
BILLY

Gate's Piece

After reading the Gates piece I admit having similar reactions to Cole's point of view. I felt like the text was elegantly written and expressive. However, it seemed to be excessive to a point where some of his original meaning can be diluted. Of what could be concluded it seems like Gates was trying to make the point that African-Americans are treated very differently than other races, especially Anglo-saxon, white. He compares the historical roles of white vs. black. "when scholar-critics were white men and when women and people of color were voiceless, faceless servants and laborers, pouring tea and filling brandy snifters in the boardrooms of old boys' clubs." With this quote in mind, he transitions to the roles of race in the modern world. He brings about questions such as equality in common areas of work. Do African-Americans have the same weight of meaning to their voice? Many would argue "not at all". It seams that after the readings that Gates is trying to bring about this measure. In the multi-dimensional tug-of-war that is global attention and awareness, what roles of race and equality play? This is a question that I feel the world is still trying to answer.

Rhetorical and Literature-centric Response to Whose Canon is it Anyway?

  In this difficult and convoluted piece of writing, good points are being made, but they are shrouded by the wordiness of the piece. Gates could have taken some notes from Orwell, though  I suspect his last paragraphs may be somewhat telling. The piece is written like a mix between a persona journal entry and an SAT vocabulary practice test. Perhaps in compensation for his former follies and in desire to speak like his mother, the author allows the reader to become lost in what he is putting on the paper. He writes with powerful eloquence, but is overly illustrative to the point where it goes from 'pleasant to read' to 'confusing and frustrating.' At least for me. Now, I've spoken against Orwell's rules on writing in the past, but now I see an author who could benefit from the.

  In the first paragraph of Gates' piece I feel lost. It isn't clear to me what he's talking about, and by the end of the piece I was so frustrated with how he otherwise could have construed his message that I chose to talk about his writing rather than the subject. If I were to be cynical, I could even say that Gates is trying to emerge from a construct that dictates black men to be less literarily inclined. I don't think that's fair to say without having a conversation with the man, but it could certainly be hazarded. This man is a powerful writer, but this text is hard to follow, which is bad for a persuasive piece. I would like to know what he feels, not what he thinks. It seems like the process of writing didn't serve as a way to weed out the minutiae that comes from over thinking a subject. Writing is nice because it forces one to organize their scattered thoughts, but I think Gate's piece could serve to be revised further in order to be more concise.

Whose Canon is it, Anyways?

What I got from the reading was the author was pointing out that even today there is still racial and gender inequality. I know he was specifically pointing out that there is inequality among African-Americans ( he was talking about African-American literature/authors). And he didn't make a huge point about males being generally more 'powerful' in society. I know a good example is that the average women makes almost a dollar less an hour for the same job if a man was to work it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised (although I do not know for sure) if other races (besides white) were to make less than the average white male in terms of salary.

I will admit that there have been huge advances in terms of equality, both between races and genders, but it's sad that there is still such issues in terms of equality today. Basically what happens is nobody verbally says anything, but this issue just remains and unspoken undertone.

There needs to be some serious changes in society today, with all of the fighting that our country has fought for, we're just demeaning everything we've worked for. All those people who died for equality, died in the hopes that our society would smarten up and fix these obvious issues. We need to honor what so many people have fought for. The white man is no better than any race or gender.

Whose Canon is it ?

As a child I was always taught about racism by a textbook, handout, and of course by word of mouth. By word of mouth we all know that the person who is telling us doesn’t really separate what’s real and what’s not, it is not because of their ignorance either, they just do not know. Stereotypes have always and forever ruled the world. How can we the people of the United States make a change? In literature u cannot even go by what they say anymore their conceptions of different ethnic groups are all wrong when they use different characters. People fail to realize that America is indeed a melting pot we cannot separate into a white canon and a black canon that just will not work living in America. Just like a book racism and cultures will always start one way but it will always have a suspenseful ending. I agree with my peers that most literature goes against with what is real in life when it comes to the topics of race and sexuality. Society makes you want to be someone that you are not, leading to the point to believe it is ok by using literature. If god says come as you are, why can’t society do the same? At the end of the day it all comes down to the battle of the sexes, who “The Man” really is whether he is black or white, and the idea of acceptance.

"Whose Canon is it, Anyway?

I agree with Gates' article in the fact that women and African Americans get discriminated within literature. Here's an example: remember back in your history classes in middle school, “Did you ever think, did a white male write this?” Back in middle school I was learning about the olden days where there were no women’s rights, there would be two different viewpoints, if a woman wrote it rather than a man writing it. Cause if a man wrote it they might have been sexist towards women and he would write bad things about women. Same thing with African Americans, because men didn’t want women or African Americans to be able to vote, write books, and have rights. So they don’t really have many sources for back then written by a woman or an African American, because they weren’t able to publish anything. There are still some places where the people still believe in African American’s and women to not have many rights. This is just awful, our constitution even states that all people are created equal, but I still believe that some people in society don’t follow that Amendment in the Constitution. I think our society says that but deep down the people don’t really believe it sometimes. This is a real big thing in society that we just ignore.

"The" Canon

Racism still exists; it will never fade. Some of the best examples of racism remain in literature; mostly in historicals or textbooks for history classes. Writers of different generations and races tend to see events in a different canon, yet still influence one another: “There can be no doubt that white text inform and influence black texts (and vice Versa), so that thoroughly integrated canon of American literature is not only politically sound, it is intellectually sound as well. But the attempts of black scholars to define a black American canon, and to derive indigenous theories of interpretation from within this canon are not meant to refute the soundness of these gestures of integration.” A white writer from the Civil Right Movement era may still have racist tendencies and may write about his side of the story and his thought about what happened in those events. On the other side, a black writer from the same era may write something completely different. But the question is: who is right? Whose canon is more correct?

Although Gates does say that integrated canon in literature is politically and intellectually sound, he also says that black canon is not defined. So in a sense, he is contradicting himself. If a canon is not fully defined, then it cannot be “sound” with other canons. Which means what? That literature will always be one sided to white canon until the black American canon has a definition, and until then, black canon cannot be taken seriously. As a result, people will continue to see the white side of literature more clearly than the black side of literature. People will only read about the white man’s version of the Civil Rights Movement and not the black man’s version. Racism will continue to exist within literature until black canon says otherwise.

Culture Clash

Equality is what America's foundation is built upon, and the one word that we "swear" we abide to. The discrimination towards African Americans and Women that occurred and is still present today in some places is appalling. Every ethnicity and culture has its own stereotypes and issues. But in reality no race with every "fade away" or become obsolete in today's society. I believe that contrary to some beliefs today we are much more accepting and embracing to change and ethnicity then "older" generations that strive on a conservative mindset. They way we are raised (both physically and mentally), and the time period we are raised in greatly determines a person's prejudice and mindset. The idea that the color of my skin determines my status in the "social pyramid" is insane and the way men degrade women and blacks is also crazy. The color of your skin should not determine your superiority and all these thing that i have mentioned are also extremely relevant to schools and writing. The idea that history repeats itself is really inevitable in my mind when talking about these extremely hard topics.

On that note I was reading through other posts that had been submitted and Ian made the most powerful point that i believe really hits home with the reading that Gates wrote. He said, "The challenge is questioning a generally accepted ideal and convincing others and ourselves to maintain that ideal.It’s the only way an individual will change the norm and change the minds of the masses." This to me truly was the essence of the reading and how equality will really be achieved in today's society. The idea that everyone must be on the same page and everyone must be heard to make a change can go a long way.

whose canon

Gates has some interesting point is in his piece “ Whose canon is it anyway?” “ There can b no doubt that white text inform and influence black texts ( and vice Versa), so that thoroughly integrated canon of American literature is not only politically sound, it is intellectually sound as well. But the attempts of black scholars to define a black American canon, and to derive indigenous theories of interpretation from within this canon are not meant to refute the soundness of these gestures of integration.” I think what gates is saying here is that both text are influenced by one another and because America is so heavily integrated it would be impossible to separate the texts completely. While many experiences might overlap I feel as though learning the experiences of others would still be extremely beneficial. When it comes to our education I feel like we should be given a wide verity of text to gain a greater understanding of people. One thing that I always wanted to learn in school was the other side of history. I would love to know how the Germans teach about the world war. We always want to paint our selves in a better light but I would rather not be deceived. Whether its an account of a black slave a house wife or a German solider I think all sides should be heard.

Canons

Every race and culture comes with it’s stereotypes.   No race is going to become extinct.  With that being said it is amazing that it took 200 years for America to mesh together blacks and whites.  Obviously everything is not perfect today but I like to think we are getting there.  Everyone throughout their educational journey through school learns of the discrimination towards women and blacks.  White men were always considered the elite race, but what made them considered the best?  People grow up with a mindset of who they like and who they don’t like for reasons that literally make no sense.  It is not their fault it is just the way they were raised; especially the older generation in society.  They were used to the segregation of blacks and whites.  They thought nothing of it because that was what the texts in school were telling them and that is all they knew.  The famous, women are only good for cooking and sex kills me to hear.  I honestly have said it before as a joke and not in front of a female audience.  That does not mean I feel that way at all but guys are guys and insulting women is going to be done by men forever.  Half of the reason for this is the way boys are brought up through school.  They learn about women’s rights and that is when the stereotyping occurs.  In most cases the stereotyping isn’t true but the only way for a stereotype to start is if some of it is true.  My girlfriend is an awesome girl and I can confidently say that she does not fall under the normal jokes directed towards women.  I respect people’s feelings towards others but society as a whole needs to not be single minded and give everyone respect unless there is a solid reason to do so instead of bullshit stereotypes.       

Literature and Race.

While reading this I thought about how we're taught about other cultures in school. We're taught about culture from a textbook that has one point of view and unless the teacher has more to add to what the textbook says that's pretty much all we'll ever learn from schools. The beginning of the reading talked about affirmative action and that's really where my mind stayed. Affirmative action is supposed to help the minority groups, but I never thought it did. I worked hard to get where I am now. I didn't want to get accepted into a college because they had some sort of ethnic quota that they needed to fill.

Most literature that has ethnic characters usually gets them wrong as well. There are so many stereotypes that surround all racial groups. Most people never take the time to actually figure out what is real and what isn't. I feel like that was the point that Gates was trying to make when he brought up the White Canon and the Black Canon. You can't have both live separately, especially in America. Whether we like it or not all the cultures in America do mix. I might be Asian but I was raised American. Literature in America should be like this too. It might have began at one point, but it's never just going to be one thing. Literature is what you make of it.

Literature

I really enjoyed this article. I am completely agree that most literature discriminates against women and African Americans. I remember being in middle school and finding out that some poets and writers that were female had to go under fake men names because women couldn't write books. I never understood that. Why does society want people to be someone they aren't? Aren't we supposed to accept everyone as they are? Something else that makes me iffy about is if you really want to know about a past time you read about it. But if you are reading about the civil rights movement that was written by at white person it doesn't make sense. Someone that was there and was really having it happen to them should know more about the topic and have a clearer understanding of what was going on. So when someone cannot write about a past time that happened to them then you are losing a valuable piece of history.

Men didn't want women and African Americans to learn how to read and write or publish anything because they didn't want them to be smarter than they are. So the whole this is sexist, racist and just plan stupid.

Literature's problem

We live in a world that is filled with various cultures, backgrounds, and races. We live in a country referred to as a melting pot, but only in the sense of general acceptance. As the case for canon in literature the people are left out. For in the society the white man has remained the master of who he thinks the lesser.

The white man has remained the man behind the curtain; he speaks to us as if we were equal, but only for our own self reassurance. For when we bring our new ideas forward we are chastised for our endeavors, but the worst part is we agree with him.

The challenge is questioning a generally accepted ideal and convincing others and ourselves to maintain that ideal. It’s the only way an individual will change the norm and change the minds of the masses.

I may have strayed far from the point

In education systems today, it is important that students understand and be informed of different cultures. Not only how they are different, but also how they are alike. Religious actions through all cultures are different and important, but they are not so unlike and that is what we need to have younger generations and students understand. Being educated about other cultures we can find an understanding of people are both different and alike of us, and how we can find common ground between each other. History is how we are all taught this. Every culture has a written history that we can use to further and better understand people who are different from us.

I think that writing these days is too structured for the mind of kids our ages. There are so many opportunities and opinions about absolutely everything that people will never agree with one another. Writing is turning into a way to opinionate you and be heard and set apart from others. I think that in order to be notices for writing these days, that the old rules of writing cannot apply. Old five paragraph essays from the days we can barely remember just wont cut it anymore, we all need a more moving and personal writing piece than one point and three supported facts to back it up. Writing now takes freedom and strong beliefs.

Literature to Fight Discrimination

Discrimination has been part of our country since its conception. First it was the Native Americans, then the African Americans, and more recently Muslims or those who participate in Islamic traditions. As a society we have always been leery of those who are different. Whether those differences presented themselves in skin color, traditional practices, or religious beliefs, we began cataloguing those discrepancies in distinct ways. Such profiling has slowly seeped into the world of literature, and instead of using the texts to fight prejudices, they are serving to add fuel to the fire.

In his essay, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. states that teachers need to use literature as a tool to teach students how similar the various cultures are, as opposed to focusing only on what separates them. Though the traditions and religious beliefs are different in many ways, there are many cultures that overlap in a sense. That is, they may practice something in a unique way, but the core concept stays the same. Christmas comes to mind as an example—however many different ways it is celebrated around the world, it has still become a commercialized holiday where children receive gifts from Santa Claus or Father Christmas or Papa Noel.

Literature is universal, meaning that it is a valuable instrument to fighting prejudices and discrimination around the world. But breaking it up into categories of black canon and white canon and so on is part of the problem. Children need to be taught that uniqueness is something to aspire to, not something to shun, and therefore moving past this idea of “canon literature” is important.

The old cliché “walk a mile in another person’s shoes” is overused but relevant. For many it is nearly impossible to fully immerse themselves in a different culture. Literature makes that possible, because in a couple hundred pages these authors offer the reader a glimpse into a world they may not be able to totally understand, but hopefully learn something from. Any piece of writing that rightfully belongs in the category of literature overall is there for a reason, usually because it makes the unrelatable relevant, even for just those few hundred pages.

Gates probably believes there are more similarities in cultures than there are differences, if only humanity would take the time to look. Removing the stereotypes from literature could be the first step in absolving them all together from our society. Children are heavily influenced by what they see and what they read, so teachers and schools need to take the initiative to teach literature as a whole topic, without subcategories based on race or culture or other discriminative subjects.

Is literature on the Decline?

I personally disagree with Orwell's excerpt. While it is true students today are more inclined to shorten essays and have interest in them due to facebook and other blogging websites, I believe this is not such a bad thing. In the real world being able to communicate with others in a quick and precise manner is very important. In large essays, there is a tendency to fill in useless details in the interest of length, when it is really not an equal amount of worthwhile content. Orwell is saying literature is on the decline because of a lack of interest in depth, but I think we as a generation are simply defining depth in a different way. I feel like it used to be if an author wanted to express their opinion, they would write a book exhibiting it. Today, someone might, instead, simply write their opinion on a blog or on facebook. This is a big problem according to Orwell, but I don't think it is. It's possible we are just expressing our opinions in a different way than in the past allowing us to expand our knowledge in a much easier and faster way.

Different Cultures, One Education by Amanda Schroth

In the aspects of culture, to separate a white canon and a black canon seems to be impossible to me. Our histories are intertwined, like a tree. The trunk itself is twisting with all the literature we share that branches off into individual sections. Still, the branch is connected to the tree, and therefore, is a part of everything that the tree is.

Gates is right when he says that education needs “to account for the comparable eloquence of the African, the Asian, and the Middle Eastern traditions” (125). Teachers need to stand before their students and inform them about cultures throughout the world and how they are all related. Traditions and beliefs are sacred to each culture, some even cross over between two different cultures, and these are what we need to be taught. By learning these aspects of other nations, we gain a sense of how to relate to people who seem different than us. Literature is one means of connecting everyone—to teach them about the past in order to understand the present. Every culture has its own history, but at the same time, these histories are intertwined.

Remove the idea of white canon, black canon, etc, in order to understand that we are all one people. How we believe and how we are raised depends on these background and these histories. No history is less important than another, which is why we need to understand and relate to other cultures. Literature is the best approach to understanding if one cannot personally experience a situation.

Taking away the idea that each history is individualized based on a culture makes viewing the human race as one a much easier picture. In a classroom, literature should vary in culture to make the students more adept in understanding the past and present of other worlds. People live differently in comparison to others depending on many factors. It is the education system's job to teach its students that each way of belief is not wrong and that each culture is connected to ours in some way or another.

I think my AP U.S. History teacher in high school must have read this same excerpt.

My teacher was generally well loved by everyone who had her. She was pretty much always smiling and you could tell that she had a real passion for what she taught. No one ever really complained about her, except for the fact that she was one of the hardest essay graders most of us had and still probably have ever encountered. She would cross out random words and phrases stating that stylistically, there was something off. None of us ever really understood why she crossed off the things she did and grammar wasn’t a huge part of our essay grades so most of us let it go.  After reading this passage, I now know why she crossed out the things she did. She pretty much used the if-all-else-fails rules from the second to last page and used it as her grading guideline.

Now that I know the reasoning behind my teacher’s system, I agree with her. I can remember all the times I put clichés and overused metaphors in my writing. There have been countless times that I’ve used longer words because I thought they made my writing sound better. Especially in history class, I’ve used “jargon” to enhance my writing, or so I thought. 

After reading these explanations, I now realize that none of these things make my writing sound better. In fact, it’s the opposite. If anything, it makes my writing worse.